FOXPRO copies do not work!

robertpri · Joined: 08 Aug 2005 Posts: 21

Six weeks ago, I bought the $60 VVPro2 and installed it onto a second drive behind the main drive that contains our FoxPro business application. All seven office computers feed into that one application to run the entire business.

The VV backup ran at 3 am to copy the 'data' files from one drive to the second drive. I checked about 10 times and the files were always there. These data files are Foxpro .dbs, .db, .dbc, .dct, and .dcx.

Fine. 14 hours ago [I'm know that for a fact] there was a failure on the main hard drive. Files were corrupt or lost. Who knows.

No problem, we have backup files less than a few hours old.

Wrong. After hours and hours of trying to get this to work, we finally contacted the FoxPro expert [Lord know what he will charge!] and he very patienly explained how you cannot copy Foxpro database files!

I explained that the software does not run at 3 am, and there are no users.

Does not matter, he replied. You have to use backup software to capture FoxPro data files, and they cannot simply be copied.

Total disaster! Six weeks of work lost, and this includes the fiscal year end records and reports.

Nothing about this in the VV help or software or any place else. I know about copying windows files [not doing that] and Outlook files [not doing that either]

Just the business data from one application on one drive to another one.

I will sign off now and go hide in a hole someplace....I seriously doubt if I will be asked to return to that office.

TGRMN Software · Site Admin Joined: 10 Jan 2005 Posts: 8759

robertpri
Sorry to hear about that but something does not sound right here. If you have copies of ALL files and information used by the FOXPRO application then you have a snapshot of all the FOXPRO databases at a certain point in time. It is the same as having a crash snapshot. This is called a "crash consistent state". I do not know what the expert means when he says "You have to use backup software to capture FoxPro data files, and they cannot simply be copied." What backup software? Every backup software will copy data somewhere. If he means using VSS, here it is: http://www.tgrmn.com/web/kb/item33.htm
Ask the expert what info you do not have that is needed to restore the databases.
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Guest · Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 1:37 am Post subject:

Many thanks, but I don't know what happened. I had it set for a "copy" and perhaps that is where things went wrong. Your link goes to:

"Before starting a new file copy operation ViceVersa calls the Volume Shadow Service (VSS) and requests the creation of a Volume (=Disk) Shadow Copy for the files to be copied. This is not a full copy of the entire disk, but a differential copy. Hence, its creation will take only a few seconds.
Once the Volume Shadow Copy is available, ViceVersa uses it to access the files to be copied.

Finally, ViceVersa releases the Volume Shadow Copy."

Is this automatic? The shadow copy? Or is there some setting that I missed? The only setting I can recall is "method" and I clicked for replication, unattended, one way, from source to target. It "appeared" to duplicate all the files, at least the "compare" said so.

But when the software crashed, we copied all the files back to the primary drive. It would not open or run. We reinstalled the program, but it cannot read any of the files.

TGRMN Software · Site Admin Joined: 10 Jan 2005 Posts: 8759

No, shadow copy is not automatic because it is an advanced ViceVersa use.

You could have the following scenarios:
a) If you copied all the necessary files with the FOXPRO application closed, then the files were not in use. You file copies will be fine. You can just copy the files back to the original location. Of course if you encrypt then or compress then you will have to decrypt and uncompress them.
b) If you copied all the necessary files with the FOXPRO application still running, then the files were in use so the copies may be not 100% OK. Still you should be able to recover most of the data. Note that ViceVersa would have given an error for this because the files were not accessible.
c) If you used VSS you will have a crash consistent state.

I do not know enough about your FOXPRO application. But can you open the copied database files with a raw database browser? Or what error do you get?
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Guest · Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 2:12 am Post subject:

"No, shadow copy is not automatic because it is an advanced ViceVersa use. "

But how do I get that?

The copies were made at 3am, in theory, when the software was closed, or at the least, not in use. My "idea" was that if this copy happened every 3 am, then at least a few times-even once-a week would capture them.

"If you used VSS you will have a crash consistent state. "

Is this an XP or server feature? Totally clueless on what this means.

More: he said that I should have used NTbackup.exe to capture the entire folder, and then used something like VV to copy the resultant file.

Make sense to you? Would that be a shadow copy of active files?

TGRMN Software · Site Admin Joined: 10 Jan 2005 Posts: 8759

>> But how do I get that?

In the advanced settings of Viceversa build 2.0.0.8
But anyway now does not matter.

>> The copies were made at 3am, in theory, when the software was closed, or at the least, not in use. My "idea" was that if this copy happened every 3 am, then at least a few times-even once-a week would capture them.

Well, it depends. If the database files were still opened, it does not matter if the software is in use or not. But how many copied of the database files do you have?

>> More: he said that I should have used NTbackup.exe to capture the entire folder, and then used something like VV to copy the resultant file.
Make sense to you? Would that be a shadow copy of active files?

NTbackup uses VSS (shadow copy) ONLY on Windows 2003 and Windows XP only. What system are you running on?
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TGRMN Software · Site Admin Joined: 10 Jan 2005 Posts: 8759

Have a look at this MS article:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dv_foxhelp/html/dgupsizing_to_sql_server.asp

At the bottom of the page it mentions to make backup copies of FOXPRO database by copying them...
So I think the issue here is that the backup copies you created were made while the FOXPRO application was still running and without using VSS.
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Guest · Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 2:57 am Post subject:

"So I think the issue here is that the backup copies you created were made while the FOXPRO application was still running and without using VSS"

And that seems to be the case. Back to the question: should I use NTbackup and then VVpro to copy the resultant folder file?

System uses MS Server 2003 and NTFS

I just checked my XP help on volume shadow service, and the only link it provides is how to use NTbackup. Zero help.

TGRMN Software · Site Admin Joined: 10 Jan 2005 Posts: 8759

Guest · Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:15 am Post subject:

Thanks, and please understand my desparation here. I have lost that client for sure, but I was about to get more VVPro's for other business clients.

Now, I'm in a panic! One more like this, and I'm out of business. Your steps:

"You can use ViceVersa PRO without NTbackup.

Make sure you have the latest build 2.0.0.8."

This is about one month old. I'd have to get inside that office to see the version. I have no idea from here.

"Activate Volume Shadow Copy (for source) in the advanced settings of the profile."

This is inside VVPro?

"Also activate verify file copy using CRC. this will make sure the copy is succesfull. Make the copy."

This is inside VV Pro?

I am really terrified of trying this with another client. I could not recover from two such failures.

I do know how to use NTbackup. So, please, would that work?

NTbackup [which I believe uses VSS] and then use VVpro to copy that file to the other drive?

Please advise on this.

thanks

TGRMN Software · Site Admin Joined: 10 Jan 2005 Posts: 8759

Hi - I understand the situation you are in, I think the file copies you made must still be usable somehow, try to open them with a db browser.

Ok, to summarize:
- This process is specific to making copies of FOXPRO databases.
- To make backup copies of FOXPRO databases you have 2 options.
---- A) Copy the databases when they are closed, ie the application using it is shut down.
---- B) Use Volume Shadow Copy technology available in Windows XP and 2003.

Re B:
- Use build 2.0.0.8 or higher
- In ViceVersa PRO 2, activate Volume Shadow Copy for source in the advanced settings of the ViceVersa profile.
- In ViceVersa PRO 2, also activate the option "verify file copy using CRC". This will perform an extra check to make sure the copy is succesful.
- Make the copy. The first time check that everything is OK.

Re: NTbackup, I never used that program, sorry. But it should be easy to follow the program prompts.
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TGRMN Software · Site Admin Joined: 10 Jan 2005 Posts: 8759

BTW maybe it also helps if you have the ViceVersa log files of your backups. Log files can be setup in the ViceVersa PRO execution settings. Let me know if I can help more with this one.
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Guest · Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:52 am Post subject:

Many thanks. I guess this is as far as I can go.

Don't know if I have the nerve to try it again. This was/is a disaster.

Guest · Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 4:00 pm Post subject:

I installed build 2008 and can see the new options. A couple of questions:

one, is a shadow copy the same thing as an ordinary copy? In other words, in a crisis, can one simply copy that "shadow copy" back to the source, or does something else have to be done?

two, [multiple questions, I guess] the following boxes need to be checked:

Use Volume shadow, etc
use the CRC check

but what about these:
copy directly to destination
try to copy, etc
copy permissions, etc
no empty source/target check

The help file doesn't help much.

BTW: I am gathering the nerve to try this again....once I understand it